Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. The gift of your ADHD shines. The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. So sorry Maxine! Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. pigella miraculous ladybug power. Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. I think that it speaks volumes about their powers of discernment and what they truly think about Joseph Smith. When?? He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. Listening now- so far, I like the new intro lots! From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. Metcalfe (ed. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Ive heard there might. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. brent metcalfe excommunicated. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. Oh, that would be great! Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. Signature Books. I am waiting patiently for part 3. Let me be equally clear that I dont believe that the BoAbr is an authentic translation of the papyri he possessed. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. Riveting stuff. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? Sincerely, Terry. It was awful so stressful. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? But Brent seems to do just the opposite. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Nicely done, John. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. Very informative. The 7th East Press was a gem. So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. and our Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. Lessons learnt - Blogger brent metcalfe excommunicated. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Yes! If I applied Vatican II to the full breadth of Catholicism, I clearly misspoke (Im not even sure why I would make such a sweeping claim, so I am a tad mystified). Coming from similar backgrounds, Mark and Brent subsequently began working together on finding and authenticating documents, which eventually turned their relationship into a friendship. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. Hoffman was Laffertys cell mate. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. http://mormonstories.org/brent-metcalfe-hofmann-bombings-excommunication-book-of-mormon/, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Brent did Jerald make an official overture to church leadership regarding Hofmann being a fraud? In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. My faith failed me and that led to crisis. I cant wait to listen to the second half! Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. "Murder Among the Mormons" - A Review - UVU REVIEW Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. In True Crime Series 'Murder Among the Mormons,' LDS Church Reckons As soon as we can! Career Two-time NCAA and Big Ten Champion three-time all-American first wrestler in Big ten history to earn Outstanding Wrestler at the conference meet two straight years (2008, 2009) career winning percentage of .972 (108-3) ranks second all-time at Iowa 2008 Dan Hodge Trophy winner 2008 Jesse Owens Big Ten . What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. Truth or legend? [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. Talk about ADD. Davison's Brent Metcalf avenges loss to win NCAA wrestling - Mlive See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. News, Sports, Jobs - Daily Herald Brents work is groundbreaking and reliably fascinating. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. This was interesting all around. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Your account of why you didnt pursue a doctorate was extremely touching to me as I absolutely admire those that can do the tedium of historical research. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? Brent, On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. When we taught the Book of Mormon story, it was part of our presentation. The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. She related all this to me and my companion. ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. I have to assume hes simply speaking on the basis of snippets of information here and there without context, because this is clearly untrue. We also talk about the concept of translation, Joseph Smiths views on his translations, the traditional apologetic responses concerning the Book of Abraham (Hugh Nibley, John Gee, and Kerry Muhlestein), as well as the LDS Churchs recent essay on the Book of Abraham. Yes! Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. I just looked down at the paper and I felt this wave of total anxiety come over me and then all of a sudden it was like my brain stopped working and it felt like I was looking at a different language. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? Brent Metcalfe is definitely one - Mormon Stories Podcast - Facebook I remember one time a BYU professor handed me a long quote to read out loud to the class when I walked in and I almost had the first major public panic attack of my life. [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." Come to the dark side and tell your story. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. They are in a tough spot. "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . Is there going to be a part 3? In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hofmanns eventual plea deal. This was very similar to my experience. What are your views on the work of Hugh Nibley? Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! dave davies wife. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets).
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